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Benjamin Franklin
Senior Forum Member
8601 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 03 2009 : 6:14:48 PM
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Lerner is going to trust Bernie. At least I hope. Any Mangini fans out there. I wanted to cry when he was hired. It looks like no fun on Sundays for awhile. Guess I'll just root for the class acts.
by the way Spikes eye gouge was shameful - he could blind somebody. he got off easy (1/2 a game). |
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callen5
Regular Forum Member
USA
932 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2009 : 2:22:44 PM
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| I am hoping that we never ever get another one of the Jets on our team. I think that was a big mistake hiring Mangina. |
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seabiscuit
Senior Forum Member
USA
1476 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2009 : 4:59:36 PM
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Why is it that Ohio, where basically pro football had its beginning, cannot put together a successful, non controversial team! It's so depressing! My mom was such a big Brown's fan. I would just love to see both the Browns and the Bengals (ouch, hope I can say that in the same sentence) become power houses in the NFL. Ohioans love their football! We deserve to have successful teams!
"The pen is mightier than the sword", Edward Bulwer-Lytton |
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gunslinger3879
Senior Forum Member
Tonga
6727 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2009 : 5:40:12 PM
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I am a fan of Bernie Kosar, but if Bernie is given any more power than that of a consultant, then Lerner has proved he has learned nothing from his past mistakes. Bernie is likable and still immensely popular in the Cleveland but he as zero credentials in the area of football operations. Use Bernie as a go between with players and fans, but to give him any real power would most likely result in disaster.
The Browns need a proven GM, and a proven coach. This current mess in not for first timers.
"You had your chance, okay? I've already had someone created in my image. He's evil, he wants to take over Knox Pages, and his ultimate aspiration is world domination." |
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Benjamin Franklin
Senior Forum Member
8601 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2009 : 1:17:49 PM
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Bernie probably isn't GM material - but at least Lerner is trying to get some good advice. lerner even met for two hours with the disgruntled fans trying to start the kickoff boycott for the monday night game. A good GM and a fine coach are the foundation of a team. the current browns break my heart all to .......
Maybe Lerner needs to hang around the Rooneys for awhile. |
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gunslinger3879
Senior Forum Member
Tonga
6727 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2009 : 10:02:37 PM
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Where you build a team and win and lose, is through the draft. Although I like a few of the picks from this year's draft, I still consider it to be a bust, due to what it could of been. I like Alex Mack their top pick (Although I would of stayed at number 5, and got an impact player) but they should of gotten way more for the 5th pick of the draft. To come away without the Jet's top pick next year is almost criminal. Even more frustrating, is the influx of ex-Jets. If you're gonna blow it up, then blow it up. Instead of the glut of second tier players that were included in the Sanchez deal, why not insist on draft picks?
Don't get me started on Brady Quinn. Mark my words, the kid will go elsewhere and become a very serviceable QB. Derek Anderson at this point should be euthanized.
"You had your chance, okay? I've already had someone created in my image. He's evil, he wants to take over Knox Pages, and his ultimate aspiration is world domination." |
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Benjamin Franklin
Senior Forum Member
8601 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2009 : 12:28:00 PM
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Euthanized - ok - I'll buy that one. I also agree on the draft - but ours have been lousy. Winslow and Edwards were high picks who actually played well but we did not get crap for them. Too many jets and we just traded for more. Mangenius is Manidiot. lerner said he now wants a STRONG personality to lead the program. Hopefully a proven winner. Shannihan or another offense guy type. These defensive gurus are killing us. I still want Cowher, but our mess may prevent that one.
Don't ya love sports Gun? People can differ and still be decent. At this point we seem to be on the same page. Sadly not much good in the browns right now except the defense does seem to try. |
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THEFINALWORD
Regular Forum Member
264 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2009 : 08:03:26 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by gunslinger3879
I am a fan of Bernie Kosar, but if Bernie is given any more power than that of a consultant, then Lerner has proved he has learned nothing from his past mistakes. Bernie is likable and still immensely popular in the Cleveland but he as zero credentials in the area of football operations. Use Bernie as a go between with players and fans, but to give him any real power would most likely result in disaster.
The Browns need a proven GM, and a proven coach. This current mess in not for first timers.
"You had your chance, okay? I've already had someone created in my image. He's evil, he wants to take over Knox Pages, and his ultimate aspiration is world domination."
I'm a Kosar fan too, but Bernie's strength is the X's and O's (he's a great analyst on the pre-season games even though he sounds like he's intoxicated). I don't think Bernie is into working 16-18 hour days as an assistant coach. Lure Ozzie back to Cleveland as GM and hire one of the many proven coaches currently out of work.
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Benjamin Franklin
Senior Forum Member
8601 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2009 : 1:36:05 PM
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| Oz is a good idea. but is he a Model excuse the (dirty word) man? |
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gunslinger3879
Senior Forum Member
Tonga
6727 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2009 : 6:11:51 PM
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I don't think even Bill Gates has enough money to lure Ozzie Newsome from Baltimore, especially after what happened to George Kokinos. Randy Lerner is going to have a tough sell to any established GM, after the decade of dysfunction we've experienced.
Three names I have heard mentioned for head of football operations are former Giants General Manager Ernie Accorsi, former Packers and Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren and former Packers General Manager Ron Wolf. I do not believe Accorsi or Wolf would consider full time employment, which is unfortunate as either would be an excellent choice. However I could see Holmgrem considering the idea, on his terms. Mangini would most likely be fired if any of these respected football minds came to town.
As for Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow, I wasn't unhappy with either deal. Both were clubhouse cancers, which is exactly what the Browns need to rid themselves of. Winslow's physical condition had deteriorated to the point, he had to push off to create separation, thus the offensive pass interference calls we came to expect from him once to twice a game. Braylon is an enigma. He may turn out to be a superstar, but I'm betting against it. He was too self-centered, and lost focus too easily to ever become a bona-fide number one receiver.
This team has a very long ways to go.
"You had your chance, okay? I've already had someone created in my image. He's evil, he wants to take over Knox Pages, and his ultimate aspiration is world domination." |
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Benjamin Franklin
Senior Forum Member
8601 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2009 : 12:45:28 PM
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Edwards and Winslow were like 5th and 6th picks in the draft. A spot where one would hope to land a pro bowl type player. trading them for special teams players is not my idea of a good trade regardless of their cubhouse lackings. I think we got a second rounder for winslow - only time will tell how that pick turns out.
gun you are also correct about people thinking twice about going to cleveland. Coaches as well as players - in the past the browns were considered a great place for a player to be considering how the community treated them so well. the writers should love all this. They can write articles without any real knowledge of the game - like some of the airhead talk radio FM 97.1 puts out. |
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gunslinger3879
Senior Forum Member
Tonga
6727 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2009 : 1:36:22 PM
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Kellen Winslow's past injuries rendered his physical condition much older than his 26 years, and caused him to miss 6 games in 2008. In fact in his career, he had only played in a full season twice. He couldn't or wouldn't block and had lost a couple of steps over the last couple of seasons. He was also pushing hard for a new contract and would of most likely of been a hold out. He did have great hands, but with all the other intangibles working against him, this alone did not justify keeping him around. The second round pick they received in the deal they used to select Mohamed Massaquoi who has shown flashes of becoming a solid number 2, if not number 1 receiver. Time will tell if it was a good deal, but for now I am supportive of it, and would do it again.
As for Braylon, he wanted out of Cleveland. He continued to make stupid mistakes along with doing little things to be an irritant. He always had problems with his hands, but there was no denying he was extremely talented. However, again the potential doesn't outweigh the lack of effort and clubhouse dysfunction Braylon brought with him. The Browns received a number 3 pick, with possible escalators turning it into a number 2 for him along with a couple of serviceable special teamers (I would of insisted on draft picks and not current players). Another telling fact is, Braylon was dangled in preseason and no one offered any more than a number 3 pick for him. I think the consensus in the NFL is Braylon and his drops are not worth the trouble. Though I am not happy to trade the 3rd pick of 2004 draft for a 3rd or possibly a second round pick, I agree with the deal. Give me a player with lesser talent with a bigger heart and a desire to perform any day over someone like Braylon.
"You had your chance, okay? I've already had someone created in my image. He's evil, he wants to take over Knox Pages, and his ultimate aspiration is world domination." |
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Benjamin Franklin
Senior Forum Member
8601 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2009 : 5:06:31 PM
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| Gun - you love your football and the points on Winslow are good. I still think the Edwards deal was not good - I wanted draft picks too. I'll be back to comment more when we get more news and something happens. |
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gunslinger3879
Senior Forum Member
Tonga
6727 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2009 : 8:04:07 PM
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If this true, it would be a start in the right direction. Not sure Holmgrem would take the job, however there is no way in heck he would even consider it unless he had full control. I'm guessing current head coach Eric Mangini would fight this move tooth and nail, knowing he would not be able to intimidate or control Holmgren. Could get interesting.........
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4634879&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines
"You had your chance, okay? I've already had someone created in my image. He's evil, he wants to take over Knox Pages, and his ultimate aspiration is world domination." |
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Benjamin Franklin
Senior Forum Member
8601 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2009 : 07:27:17 AM
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| Radio talk has the browns wanting to talk to Holgrem. He is proven - why not? |
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THEFINALWORD
Regular Forum Member
264 Posts |
Posted - Nov 11 2009 : 11:45:18 AM
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| Gun: I've been a Browns fan for decades but don't always have time to keep up on their latest moves (shenanigans?). Really like your analysis and hope you'll keep doing it! |
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